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Scholar
Original Poster
#1 Old 20th Jul 2018 at 8:29 PM
Default What rules would you have for a sim to NOT able to keep the child (apart from SW's), i.e. adoption/foster care?
As I play with pre-modern settings and have been set uberhood to fit about mid-late 19th century, I don't generally let my sims to use birth control or abort/terminate pregnancies (BC cost alot and depends on economy/personality), so I often end up quiet a lot of them. But ironically it most happens to my sims who doesn't "want" more children or have plenty of them.

I set up ACR ideal kids depending on personality of nice/playful. The more playful/nice, the more kids they "want" to have and allowed to go on birth control if they're Neat/Serious. An example:
One mother of these sims was very glitchy so I had her die from childbirth, simulated storyline type with Death Creator. Two of the kids, twins ended up living with their father who is also a romance sims and had knocked quiet alot of woman already. The mother of the kid is orphaned grandparents of the father already raise four children and the father himself is attending college and the military (they are average middle class sims).

Situations like this kinda keep me debating whether its a good or bad idea to just plop down kids to whatever relative they have available, because I'm a semi-realistic gamer. I've banned the use of social workers because I don't like how it removes family trees and consider setting up a orphanage as I already have one for kicked out teens. Of course, the twins doesn't make any differences in the household they are now as I let children do whatever they want except for their education, but I'm thinking about it in a STORY way, not "game mechanism" way because technically you have as many kids you want and they are fine until they got D grades, hungry or frozen.

So I wondering, how would YOU normally do with situations like this?

Apart from the obvious things of a social worker, like getting frozen/hunger, when would you consider the family can't take care of the children? Size of Family, Type of family, Finance? Living? etc


NOTE: Adoption/Foster care, I was thinking about teleporting via mods, as you can't do it vanilla of what I'm aware of.
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Mad Poster
#2 Old 20th Jul 2018 at 8:42 PM
Historically, before the invention of child protection laws in the 19th century, there was no such thing as a disqualification for child rearing. Orphans were claimed by relatives, taken as wards of the ruler, absorbed into the families of neighbors, or left to get along as well as they could depending on circumstances. Overcrowding was barely a concept, much less a concern.

So the only thing you really have to consult is the state of your society. Do children inherit large amounts of wealth? If so, their relatives will be fighting to take them in, in order to manage the wealth, and may or may not act as adequate stewards and guardians. If political power is based on families, then the ruler of an area will have a vested interest in controlling the guardianship of children, and may bring orphans of certain families into his own household, or assign their care to trusted officials. Are children in a family essentially free labor for agricultural and artisan families? Then relatives and neighbors will snap them up - or at least, all the able-bodied ones. And except in the case of wards of the ruler, it's nobody's business to ask if they're well-cared for or not, unless the sufferings of poor orphans is the concern of someone of a philanthropic tendency with the means to provide asylum.

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Scholar
Original Poster
#3 Old 20th Jul 2018 at 8:50 PM
I was referring to ANY decade/century and generally though, because I'm going all out on accuracy on the time line of my own hoods. My sims only have more many children because of Inteen/ACR rules of mine which inspired by older time So I don't micromanage the number as I decide that based on personality and ACR/Inteen.

I often notice in other threads, some simmers only allow a certain number of children due to the parents finance, which kinda trigger this question and 'cause I'm not interested in child care in real life, i find it hard to simulate deadbeat parents and custody in general. If the families had more relatives it's much easier to decide where the child goes to or if it was a parental custody thing (which I asked like a half year ago), but my thought was SHOULD they care for them if they are not able to RAISE it, realistically even if they are no other relatives available?

"okay kid, I'm not that fond of you, but do whatever you want in our home. " .....or smh attitude of the guardian would sound kinda odd as a welcome.
Scholar
#4 Old 20th Jul 2018 at 9:02 PM
I think the main reason would be finance. I don't mean that only the very poor would give up their children, though. A peasant or urban working class family might use the cheapest beds and chairs, etc., and have only one set of clothes for each category; a middle class family might use middle-price furniture and provide four or five sets of clothing, and an upper class family might insist on having the best (and most) of everything. Some classes of family might have school fees to pay, too. Then, if the family cannot support another child at the same level as its siblings, they would be considered a 'poor relation' and send a child/children to live with relatives, or even sell them (ahem, apprentice them) to a non-relative. Alternatively, of course, if the family really wanted the child, they might drop down a social class or live in 'genteel poverty'.

Also, if a parent has a nervous breakdown after the birth of an unwanted child, that child would likely be handed off to a relative or 'left on the church doorstep' (meaning either that you move them to your orphanage, or you use the SimBlender to put them up for adoption).
Mad Poster
#5 Old 20th Jul 2018 at 9:13 PM
If a parent rolls a want to see the ghost of their kid or drink them from a cowplant, that's a pretty good criteria to get the kid out of there. Other than that, I mostly use my own discretion. I've had my neighbourhood's playable social worker bring baskets of groceries over for families in financial distress.

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Instructor
#6 Old 20th Jul 2018 at 9:31 PM
I was thinking about something like this the other day. I was thinking about importing a law named, "No teach, no child". Meaning, a child gets taken away from their parents if they aren't taught the 3 toddler skills (walk, talk, potty) and grows up badly. I wish more sim parents took those skills more seriously. Just giving a toddler a bottle every sim hour, isn't raising them. The law was inspired by the Pleasants' and the Contrarys'.



There's no drama, like Sims drama.

Currently Playing: Sims 2 again!




Scholar
Original Poster
#7 Old 20th Jul 2018 at 9:36 PM
I often get bored of the toddler stage so I just cheat the toddler skills because they fill up the want slots. Some of my sims does live poorer than they suppose to. I.e four kids plus single parent in ONE Bedroom. It's the one of the uploaded hoods on here, Emerald Height which Ive been filled up with moved in townies, so even sims from higher economics situations were forced to live in squashed environments.
Undead Molten Llama
#8 Old 20th Jul 2018 at 9:47 PM
In one of my neighborhoods, there's a rule that houses can't be expanded and only a certain number of kids are allowed per bedroom. If a family has more kids than are allowed by the configuration of their house/apartment and they can't afford a larger place, then the extra kid(s) must be given up for adoption. Admittedly, I did this to help fill up the playable orphanage in that neighborhood, since I didn't want to just generate kids for it. That's why it's kind of a cruel rule. I have no illusions about it being "realistic."

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Alchemist
#9 Old 20th Jul 2018 at 9:48 PM
I do not disallow any of my sims from raising a child.
adoption; my rules are not much different than game's. only difference is age; awhile back created a mod to let Child/older to adopt.
Mad Poster
#10 Old 20th Jul 2018 at 10:07 PM
If a parent cannot or doesn't take care of the kids, and is caught at it, is a reason why mine wouldn't get to keep the kids. Since I have the social worker modded out, that has nothing to do with failing grades anymore, but rather if, say, parents leave babies or toddlers alone at home while they go to work, and a neighbor or relative stops by, the neighbor might report.

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retired moderator
#11 Old 20th Jul 2018 at 11:14 PM
I decide based on the story I have for that particular sim if they will give the baby up for adoption. I use a playable as the SW and she runs the orphanage. Grades have nothing to do with it. Neglected kids could be taken, but I haven't had that yet.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
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Forum Resident
#12 Old 20th Jul 2018 at 11:17 PM
Hmmm I suppose I do have some situations where it just becomes clear that the parents cannot and will not cope.

One of my rules is if the child is being neglected (the parents are pleasure sims or romance and not many nice points, so they never 'serve' meals and the poor thing has to get leftovers out of the fridge all the time.)

Another is if there's constant vermin INSIDE the house, and the child is sick for more than 3-4 months (3-4 sim days).

I find it irritating the the social worker takes children for low grades. Low grades are not an automatic indication of an unfit living environment and as soon as I figure out how to mod her out and manage it myself I certainly will.

I built group homes for teens (run by kindly elders), and children's homes for the kiddies. The group homes aren't really orphanages, they're for teens who aren't going to be adopted before they turn 18. The goal is to give them a steady place to live so that they can either go to college or get jobs. For the children's home, it's where the kids live while the government (i.e. me) sorts out families for them. The prospective parents come to the house and meet the child, interact a bit, and then take it home from there.

Once I ban the social worker, children's homes will be where all my kiddies go.
Top Secret Researcher
#13 Old 20th Jul 2018 at 11:24 PM
Neglected kids, kids that have very little interaction with the parents; not enough room - eg a family living in a trailer park unit are a couple of reasons kids are put up for adoption, and because I don't have a mod to teleport them, a parent takes the child to the orphanage and leaves them there. Currently I have no-one in the orphanage because I try to limit how many kids each family has (ignoring their wants), and I found the orphanage a little boring and time-consuming to play.
Mad Poster
#14 Old 21st Jul 2018 at 12:19 AM
Not all of my sims can afford to live in big enough houses or apartments to raise a lot of kids, and sometimes if I have e.g. two married pleasure sims I just can't see them raising kids, so the kids go up for adoption. I try to have them adopted by someone else in the neighborhood, but they might sit in the adoption queue for a while, especially since I generally put the Ottomas and Newson toddlers into the adoption queue while I'm towniefying all of the Maxis premades.
Mad Poster
#15 Old 21st Jul 2018 at 1:21 AM
Well, since I'm the Simmer who added a codicil to my Sims' constitution, saying that "Every child has the right to be loved," I suppose a child might in theory be taken into care if their parent(s) fail to show them enough love. In practice though, possibly influenced by Gloria and Andrew, and the extraordinarily strong mother-child bond they have between them, I regard the relationship between parent and child as a very important one, and I'd only consider breaking it in the most extreme circumstances, e.g. if I had evidence that the child was being abused or seriously neglected.

There is however nothing to stop a child going to live with relatives or friends, provided that everyone -- especially the child -- is happy with this arrangement. And children do have sleepovers with their friends.

I don't have ACR or any risky woohoo mods, so my Sims only try for baby when I tell them -- and that's not very often. I think I still find pregnancies a bit stressful to play, so I think it's generally only Sims who want a baby, and who are in a good place to look after one, who actually get to have one. So I hope all the children in my game awe "wanted children".

At the time of writing, no child in my game has been ever removed from their parents, either by the social worker or by myself.

All Sims are beautiful -- even the ugly ones.
My Simblr ~~ My LJ
Sims' lives matter!
The Veronaville kids are alright.
Scholar
#16 Old 21st Jul 2018 at 7:49 PM
I have a vaguely modern neighbourhood, but the orphanage takes in any child or younger who would otherwise have no adult in the house (and gives teens the choice). So this is the place for children whose adults have just been sent to prison, have died or have abandoned their children. Any teen or younger may also be voluntarily left at the orphanage, temporarily or permanently, if the parent feels that is a better place for them than their own home at a given moment.

If a suitable adult steps up and chooses to adopt the children (be that family or someone else), then the child leaves the orphanage to go there, unless the child has an objection. However, in nearly every case, the original adult has the right to reclaim that child if their situation changes such that they feel they can resume looking after their child. In particular, it is expected that any parent who goes to prison for an offence which doesn't speak to their ability to be a good parent will get their child back as soon as they leave prison (regardless of whether the child is in the orphanage or not). There are currently 5 children there, of whom only 1 I would call an actual orphan (2 of the others are the children of a dead mother and a father imprisoned for attempting to start a war without permission, the other 2 were abandoned by parents who were a bit too obsessed with alien abductions - the state was fine with this until they both got abducted simultaneously on purpose).

It also takes in children and teens who have committed a crime too serious for a lesser offence to be appropriate (and, in the case of the teens, where it is felt that prison is either inappropriate for that teen or excessive given the crime). Probably not historical, but sometimes a wayward teen needs discipline and a different set of influences rather than intentional punishment.

The orphanage does not take children just because the parents have little money, nor due to simple low grades (unless the social worker takes them; such children can and sometimes do end up at the orphanage). Badly-educated children raised in poverty often do well as teens and adults in SimHampton, so if everyone involved is OK with living in a house with no money and a negative attitude to education (modified by the requirement that children actually get an education), the government and orphanage will let the household find its own way.
Lab Assistant
#17 Old 22nd Jul 2018 at 4:24 AM
Hmm, I might have a one off story once in awhile in which the family drama requires the parent to give up their child. Other than that, the only hard rule where a sim is not able to keep their child is because of prison. When sims are sent to prison, they move into the prison lot for the length of their sentence (anywhere between 1-4 seasons, or life). In a situation where that leaves the children without a caretaker, the children are normally sent to a close relative, or the orphanage. After they serve their sentence, they can attempt to reconnect with their children IF the children are living with family members and the parent wasn't jailed for having children taken away by the social worker.
Mad Poster
#18 Old 23rd Jul 2018 at 1:01 AM
Quote: Originally posted by kestrellyn
I generally put the . . .Newson toddlers into the adoption queue
Oh! I could never do that! I'd be afraid that Ginger might kill herself if any of the younger children were taken away.

Quote: Originally posted by mdsb759
awhile back created a mod to let Child/older to adopt.
Did I understand that rightly? I've got mods (by Squinge) to allow teens both to adopt and to be adopted. (I don't actually let teens adopt other teens! Well not yet anyway. I let teens adopt younger children, and let adults adopt teens.) But you've made a mod to let children adopt?!

All Sims are beautiful -- even the ugly ones.
My Simblr ~~ My LJ
Sims' lives matter!
The Veronaville kids are alright.
Lab Assistant
#19 Old 23rd Jul 2018 at 2:20 PM
It's story-based for me. I have plenty of households with neglectful parents who keep their kids. Just like in real life, the system is heavily flawed.

Right now, there are two kids in the Kesry orphanage that weren't adopted through the Maxis-generated adoption pool. One was given up by his mother, Briar, because she wasn't ready to be a mom. She didn't have the money or the space and she refused to take out a loan; additionally, she didn't want the kid to begin with, but the father wouldn't hear anything about abortion. They broke up before Calvin was born, so she put him up for adoption. Little does Briar know that Brighton, the father, would've taken Calvin, and he'll likely spend the next few years scraping together the money to get his son from the orphanage. All adoptions from the orphanage cost $5,000, regardless of the Sim's relation to the child.

The other is Finn, a teen whose step-father dumped him at the orphanage the day after his mother died. He's staying at the orphanage to save up money, because he doesn't have enough to get a home of his own.

As far as the in-game social workers goes, I'm pretty sure I have them completely turned off. If not, at the very least, I have a mod that disables children from being removed if they're failing school, because I found that to be obnoxious. I understand it's there for difficulty, but it wasn't a feature I liked.

I've had kids who wound up with relatives instead of being plopped into the orphanage, such as Jeremy Lorde, son of Celia Lorde. He was a young child when his mother died of illness, and he was sent to live with his uncle Wesley, whom he loved dearly. Wesley had 5-6 kids of his own and he treated Jeremy like his own. J worked hard to get through school to make Wes proud.
Forum Resident
#20 Old 23rd Jul 2018 at 6:22 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Nukk
It's story-based for me. I have plenty of households with neglectful parents who keep their kids. Just like in real life, the system is heavily flawed.


This! I'm a similar player Nukk, I like to see how things evolve. I've had homeless teens that lived in a group home at a local church, and one worked as hard as he could in job (he was useless at school and didn't have any money for uni). He was saving to get his own place and move his girlfriend out with him <3
Alchemist
#21 Old 23rd Jul 2018 at 7:23 PM
Quote: Originally posted by AndrewGloria
Did I understand that rightly? I've got mods (by Squinge) to allow teens both to adopt and to be adopted. (I don't actually let teens adopt other teens! Well not yet anyway. I let teens adopt younger children, and let adults adopt teens.) But you've made a mod to let children adopt?!
yes, Child and older can adopt with my mod.
though Child is still oldest age to be adopted in my game.
Mad Poster
#22 Old 24th Jul 2018 at 1:58 AM
Quote: Originally posted by mdsb759
yes, Child and older can adopt with my mod.
though Child is still oldest age to be adopted in my game.
Fascinating! How does that work in practice? Do you have mods to let children look after toddlers, cook meals, pay bills, etc.? Or do adults'/teens come in to do the jobs that children can't do?

I only have one teenage couple with an adopted child so far. When their daughter grows up to be a teen herself, they plan to leave her in charge of their house while they go to university.

All Sims are beautiful -- even the ugly ones.
My Simblr ~~ My LJ
Sims' lives matter!
The Veronaville kids are alright.
Forum Resident
#23 Old 24th Jul 2018 at 5:49 AM
I don't really have rules, but anyone who can't/won't take care of children in their current circumstances. I don't let them be taken by the social worker, and I rarely put them up for adoption, but usually they'll be taken in by relatives. A lot of times, it's single mothers who leaves a young child with the grandparents while they work on their career so they're not losing all their daily income to a nanny. Sometimes I'll move the child back in once they're school-aged and there's less time home alone with the expensive nanny. Other times, they'll just be estranged from their child.
Alchemist
#24 Old 24th Jul 2018 at 7:30 PM
Quote: Originally posted by AndrewGloria
Fascinating! How does that work in practice? Do you have mods to let children look after toddlers, cook meals, pay bills, etc.? Or do adults'/teens come in to do the jobs that children can't do?
each Age's capabilities are still shipped version settings.
Field Researcher
#25 Old 24th Jul 2018 at 8:36 PM
No hard and fast "rules" here, but every so often parent and related Sims won't roll wants related to the children and every so often they receive failing grades as children or get too lonely and/or hungry as toddlers/children.

The best way I can describe this using shipped Pleasantview characters based on their optional backstories: Brandi Broke seems to want to raise her boys right despite her situation. Dina and Nina Caliente seem more interested in 'having fun' that might result in pregnancy, even if the game is programmed to give them negative memories if a child is taken.

Of course, these aren't hard and fast rules. I've had playthroughs where Brandi Broke either dies and/or gets her children taken, or one of the Calientes makes a good mother.
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