I can't believe it. A Christian, and one who knows nothing about atheism, telling me what atheim is ! ... And apparently not knowing the difference between an opinion, a scientific theory, and a religion. If you know that Webster guy that much, ask him about that.
I just think that imagining that people can live without a religion is just too much for your obviously stubborn mind; I've met many a person who just couldn't see how you could live without believing something would happen after your death besides being eaten by maggots, so I shouldn't even be surprised to read about one who can't get I abide to no religious principles or anything else that would make me have a religion.
And you seem to make it sound as if I was condoning the petition person's action, which I am not.
As for atheism letting me find comfort in it, it doesn't. I'm not an atheist because believing there's no supreme being comforts me, I'm an atheist because, among other reasons, nothing has yet made me believe there is a god, so why should I believe? ... Now if you can't get that atheism is a philosophical view and the exact opposite of religion (as Doddibot said, it's as much of a religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby), I'll probably never make you see...

Exactly Saf, just what I was saying in my first post . The laws should not be made because of a religious group's beliefs. See, how is gay marriage going to harm anyone? It seems to me that religion is the only reason it is illegal in the US.
Religions can be free to practice their beliefs (as long as they don't harm anyone or attack/harass those who don't follow their religion too) but I think they should not get to influence the laws.

Name some of the things that were stripped away from christians as I'd really love to hear this because frankly the American government is christians so why would they take away their own rights?

So for example if a christian wants to make practicing homosexuality illegal they should be allowed to? Wouldnt there be outrage if a bunch of atheists tried to make christianity illegal?

And the prayer thing is because not everyone is christian. Christian kids can still pray if they want to.

Prayer in public schools shouldn't be allowed during school hours because that could be seen as the school endorsing such activities making the "sheep" believe that religious views are being forced onto other students. The right to discipline your own children wasn't just taken away from christians, I'm all for if the child deserves a spanking/etc then the child is going to get it.

I thought you could pray in American private schools?
And so you want violence against children using a stick instead of your flat palm? ... I thought your prophet was a man who disliked violence?

I don't believe anyone should be allowed to smack a child other than their parents (maybe grandparents too as I was partly raised by mine). It is not a religious thing, it affects both religious people and atheists the same way.

Christian children can still pray in schools if they want to, they just don't make the whole class do it anymore because not everyone is christian. It is not forbidding them to pray, it is just not forcing everyone to do it. So what right is being taken away there?

We never said we wanted to strip you off your freedom... we never said we condoned Petition Man...

Straw man fallacy, anyone?

That's one problem with the American Government, it's being run by Christians, so it really doesn't much matter how loud we(the homosexuals) scream or how hard we fight, the christians will always have their way because America isn't a true separation of church and state.

I don't see what the argument is here. What exactly are you guys arguing about? A guy doesn't like religion so he started a petition about it. So freakin what?! The majority of the country aren't going to sign the stupid thing anyway because the U.S. is solely based on Christianity!

As for atheism, it is a doctrine that there is no God or Gods. What is a doctrine? a principle, position, or policy taught as of a religion or government such as Catholic doctrines or the Monroe Doctrine.

You don't have the right to claim "the end" to that debate, I still disagree that Atheism is a religion...

Just wanted to reassert that I don't approve of that... I don't think atheism was taught to me.
And some philosophical doctrines are neither religions nor ways to govern...

As for bigbadbrat, how the hell do you think you have the right to claim a debate is closed? It's a mod-only right, as far as I know.

Ok, you don't make sense anymore... How can a sane person disagree with themselves?

Oh, and:
Have a look at this, from Wikipedia (I thought the picture was a bit big)

Don't be rude. I am saying that even if you leave the debate then you have no right to call an end to the debate yourself. Are you a mod?

Nice post there Frenchie...and it seems Agnosticism is not a religion either, it seems nobody could be bothered to debate otherwise so I shall assume that I am totally correct about it being not a religion.

I don't care if you don't approve of it. That's my understanding of it. Atheism doesn't have to be taught directly to you, but it was taught to someone otherwise, we would've never known about it. And yes, it is a doctrine. Philosophical, no (don't know where you got that from). Religious, yes. But that is your opinion, however, that doesn't matter to me. I know quite a bit about atheism seeing as how I use to be one myself and I have a couple of family members who are atheists as well. So spare me the lecture about atheism and what you think it is and isn't because I already know what its about.

Lollipop girl, I'm sure bigbadbrat was saying she was through with the debate, not that the whole debate issue was over. :P

No one, not a government nor a religious sect nor a petition can force people to discard of their personal beliefs. They can try, they have before using fear tactics and other such "pleasant" things in history but only one person can decide on the beliefs you wish to follow and that's you, you can be influenced by outside scources but only you can decide what to believe in and whether or not you wish to discard it.

Every religion, and every belief has people that take it to the extremes, sad fact of life and I mean every belief. If you believe Coke is better than Pepsi, I'm certain there are Pepsi fundies that will insult you, berate you and harass you for liking Coke more.

Why does this happen? Eh, I believe it's pride and the natural urge to be superior to others. No one likes being proven wrong, but everyone likes being right and some people will cling to that in the most annoying and stubborn ways possible. So much so that you want to slap them repeatedly while screaming at them to STFU and die.

ETA: I was late in posting, I apologize. Just wanted to get my say in and now I'll return to my catacombs.

I'm not saying you know nothing about it, I've just posted something from wikipedia, the classification of belief systems, and atheism is classified as a non-religious one. Also check the page for Atheism...

Actually Wikipedia isn't always accurate with their definitions or facts, but maybe so this time. I was always told that atheism was considered a religion. I've noticed whatever forms or applications I have filled out would ask me my religious background whether it was on paper or online and atheism was always one of them. So I guess it just depends on some people. I think maybe the majority of the U.S. considers it a religion. Or maybe it is simply a belief. A belief that you believe there is no God or Gods. :shrug:

Sure, I have noticed it as well, but maybe it's what they put instead of "none". I tend to trust Wiki more than forms, as those also assume I should be of an ethnicity... I just hate such forms.

Ok, how about we come back on topic now that the big brawl is over? :p

Atheism is defined as the lack of religion. Saying that atheism is a valid religion (when in my opinion it's not- it is a lack thereof) is not only contradictory, but it's a total paradox.

Now is there much to debate about though? We're talking about someone who wants to eliminate several systems of belief that are harmless unless pushed to the extreme and forced upon others...

I just don't get why some of you think that seperating church and state is stripping people of their beliefs when it is not. They are still free to practice their religion as they wish they just can no longer make everyone else follow the rules of their religion too.

I support gay and lesbian rights, and I'm a Christian. So long as I'm breathing I'll say that homosexuality is not a choice, thus it is not a sin. I'm an odd sort, I know. I also know that abortion will never be illegal, no matter how wrong it is. And yes, I believe it's wrong. But I also recognize that you have that choice, so do I, and that's that.

To that end, I recognize your choice to believe (or not) in God. I do, and I'm not going to say 'You're going to hell because you're an atheist!' because that's judging and that's God's job, not mine. I don't want God's job, thanks. I think this petition is stupid. You'll never be rid of religious belief. It's just not going to happen. Religion has existed a long time. You're not going to get rid of it.

bigbadbrat, you have to step back into yourself and realize that no matter how much you think you're right, there's no call for rudeness. All Lolli and French were saying was that they don't believe in organized religion (Lolli's an atheist, French an agnostic, I think?) and that's ok. I'm not a big fan of it either. I don't go to church. I read my Bible, I read it to my daughter. But I don't think organized religion is the answer to everything.

I don't think atheism is a belief system, I see it as a lack of one. My ex is atheist, he had a cow when he found out I do take my daughter to church, and tried to tell me I couldn't do that. Never mind that he's not the custodial parent, he doesn't even WANT visitation. But that's his right, he doesn't have to believe in God. Heck, he doesn't have to believe anything! That's the beauty of freedom of religion, is it also translates as a freedom FROM religion.

I respect others' beliefs and lifestyles. Perhaps I'm less Christian to some for that, but I don't see myself that way. My priest is all for gay and lesbian rights, he was the one who told me that I'm okay for it. I also believe that you, as a person, have a right to believe (or not believe) in God.

But you'll never end religion. That's just ... stupid.

Ok, first off I'm agnostic, Which to me is like sugar free atheist. I don't believe in Heaven,Hell,God,etc because I simply do not see the logic or proof behind it, but I do leave room that maybe some logic escaped me and I'm wrong. :shrug: Back on topic though, I think getting rid of religion would be like trying to get rid of oxygen aka impossible, stupid and a waste of time. Although I myself am not religious I understand and respect that quite a large percentage of people are and as long as they don't try to force it on me I'm fine with that. I do think religion needs to be entirely seperate from politics. Just because I'm fine with someone believing in god, doesn't mean I want them to make decisions that effect my life based on their beliefs. You wanna pray in school? go for it. But don't make kids that don't believe in god pray with you.