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Field Researcher
#51 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 1:14 AM
Quote: Originally posted by mrscrane
In all honesty
I could have lived without being spanked in front of everyone - because it was really embarrassing and then I would feel ashamed for like week after- but overall- it worked because once I got spanked a really good- for doing something wrong- I really tried to keep the rules cause I did not want to be spanked again.


This is one of the problems I see with spanking...are they correcting their behavior to avoid getting spanked or because they actually understand the reasons why the behavior is being discouraged?

Cait

"If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is ‘God is crying’. And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is ‘Probably because of something you did’."
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Test Subject
#52 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 1:31 AM
Quote: Originally posted by girlgeek19
This is one of the problems I see with spanking...are they correcting their behavior to avoid getting spanked or because they actually understand the reasons why the behavior is being discouraged?


To tell you the truth I think children are not always able to understand what and why they did something wrong- because they just lack the maturity to see that far ahead.

I know when I was yonger- the main reason why i tried not to mess up was because I did not want to get spanked- it hurts- but later when I became older- and I guess wiser- I understood why my parents did not want me to do certain things. Yes they talked to me before and after the spanking= but most of the times I just did not get it why what I did was wrong.

I mean you tell the kid- you cant take money without asking its stealing- they think- well I take food from the fridge all the time without asking- so why am I being punished for taking money when it was just lying there on the counter?

Maybe I am not making a good example- but i dont regret my upbringing nor do I harbor grudes against my parents- I think they did what they thought was right to keep me and my siblings inline and none us holds it against them.
Field Researcher
#53 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 1:42 AM
You betcha I spank my daughter. For the strong-willed child, up until a certain age there's nothing else that can as effectively get their attention. That being said, I strictly follow a rule that I do not allow myself to spank her while I am angry. There is a huge difference between spanking your kid as a disciplinary measure and spanking them because you're that pissed off. With the former, they *do* learn that the spanking is a consequence of something they did- with the latter, if you're spanking while you're so mad you can't see straight, (doesn't matter if it actually injures them or not) all they learn is that Mommy or Daddy hates them.

Of course, I have also stumbled upon another method which is effective for my own daughter. Spanking is only used when my other method is met by a tantrum (the kind where the kid is so mad they hit you). Instead, I start throwing her toys in the trash can. You know, losing some of their favorite things for good can be a great motivator. If it's just a temporary confiscation, I've found that it just becomes a waiting game to the kid most of the time, where they are waiting just long enough between bad behaviors so they can get their toy back. In that case, they haven't really learned anything except how to outlast Mommy or Daddy.

Eagerly awaiting Silent Hill: Shattered Memories.
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#54 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 1:42 AM
Quote: Originally posted by mrscrane
To tell you the truth I think children are not always able to understand what and why they did something wrong- because they just lack the maturity to see that far ahead.

I know when I was yonger- the main reason why i tried not to mess up was because I did not want to get spanked- it hurts- but later when I became older- and I guess wiser- I understood why my parents did not want me to do certain things. Yes they talked to me before and after the spanking= but most of the times I just did not get it why what I did was wrong.

I mean you tell the kid- you cant take money without asking its stealing- they think- well I take food from the fridge all the time without asking- so why am I being punished for taking money when it was just lying there on the counter?

Maybe I am not making a good example- but i dont regret my upbringing nor do I harbor grudes against my parents- I think they did what they thought was right to keep me and my siblings inline and none us holds it against them.


Like I said, it seems bad either way.

They would try to explain it to you, but you wouldn't understand it. Pulling an example from White Oleander, it's like how girls can be called prostitutes, sluts, and whores. And then if her husband gives her money? So what?

I would of seen it (and I'd explain it to my kids, if the need ever rises). The fridge is free for everyone to open the door and grab a bite. You taking something that we worked hard for and never told you to just grab, that's not okay.

I've been through a lot, too. You don't want to know what I was like at twelve and thirteen. I was clinically depressed, violent, and basically just suffering major physical and attitude issues with friends and family. It was crazy, but now that I think of it, it's how I knew what was wrong and right at such a young age.

Quote: Originally posted by WannabeSith
You betcha I spank my daughter. For the strong-willed child, up until a certain age there's nothing else that can as effectively get their attention. That being said, I strictly follow a rule that I do not allow myself to spank her while I am angry. There is a huge difference between spanking your kid as a disciplinary measure and spanking them because you're that pissed off. With the former, they *do* learn that the spanking is a consequence of something they did- with the latter, if you're spanking while you're so mad you can't see straight, (doesn't matter if it actually injures them or not) all they learn is that Mommy or Daddy hates them.

Of course, I have also stumbled upon another method which is effective for my own daughter. Spanking is only used when my other method is met by a tantrum (the kind where the kid is so mad they hit you). Instead, I start throwing her toys in the trash can. You know, losing some of their favorite things for good can be a great motivator. If it's just a temporary confiscation, I've found that it just becomes a waiting game to the kid most of the time, where they are waiting just long enough between bad behaviors so they can get their toy back. In that case, they haven't really learned anything except how to outlast Mommy or Daddy.


That's the pains of parenthood! Hard to get right. I'm sorry.
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#55 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 2:05 AM
Quote: Originally posted by mrscrane
My parents spanked me and my siblings - but they had rules for it
4- spanking ranges from 2 lashes on the hand with the belt- to 10 depending on the crime (alternate punishments- like laundry or dishes duty- were mostly used- but spanking came in when we got really out of line)
5- spanking was not private- basically- if i broke the rules- instead of punishing me right then and there- she would wait- until my dad and all my other siblings were around- and then tell them what I did- and why I was being punished- then give me the “I love you but you broke the rules” lecture and then spank me in front of all of them.(if they were nosey enough to stick around and watch- which my siblings were)
I think she did it that way because she wanted to make an example to the rest of them.

No offence.. but I find this quite extreme. With a belt, in front of the rest.

Quote: Originally posted by mrscrane
I know when I was yonger- the main reason why i tried not to mess up was because I did not want to get spanked- it hurts- but later when I became older- and I guess wiser- I understood why my parents did not want me to do certain things. Yes they talked to me before and after the spanking= but most of the times I just did not get it why what I did was wrong.

If they explain it not well, how can you know? You can teach kids things in two ways: talk or punish. If a kid repeats things after they explain it, you should wonder if the kid doesnt understand it or if it just doesnt wanna to. Then you can punish, but still.. why use belts and go that far. The way you were punished would be child abuse here.

Quote: Originally posted by WannabeSith
I've found that it just becomes a waiting game to the kid most of the time, where they are waiting just long enough between bad behaviors so they can get their toy back. In that case, they haven't really learned anything except how to outlast Mommy or Daddy.

Do you think its any different with spanking? The kid learns to avoid the punishments. But what if there are no punishments? Will they behave then too? They are learned bad = spank, mom not there, no spank. How old is the kid?


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Field Researcher
#56 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 2:58 AM
My daughter is six-years old and every bit as stubborn as her mother. There are times that just talking to either of us achieves nothing, lol. I know this, and while I am old enough to deliberately try to do something even if I don't want to, she lacks the same capacity I do to reason out why she should not do something she wishes to. Not saying that she can't learn, of course, but that you cannot reason with small children the same way you can with an adult.

So I guess in my own roundabout way, I'm trying to say that I do think spanking is different. Spanking offers a very tangible, forcible reason for the child in question to pay attention and do as they're told. Sometimes words just don't cut it. Like the aforementioned tantrum which involves her physically assaulting someone if they displease her. (For example me, when I throw away her toys, or another child she has a beef with. I think it is reasonable to teach a child that if you hit someone, expect to get hit right back. At least smacking them on the behind does not injure them. They should not be allowed to think that they can walk all over someone without consequence.)

I also think it is appropriate to spank when they do something that they have been repeatedly warned not to do that would jeopardize their safety. Like climbing on the shelves to reach the household cleaners or running across the street. A brief sting on the butt is not going to harm a child, but poisoning or becoming a road pancake will.

Eagerly awaiting Silent Hill: Shattered Memories.
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#57 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 3:02 AM Last edited by 1ove : 15th Sep 2009 at 6:57 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by WannabeSith
My daughter is six-years old and every bit as stubborn as her mother. There are times that just talking to either of us achieves nothing, lol. I know this, and while I am old enough to deliberately try to do something even if I don't want to, she lacks the same capacity I do to reason out why she should not do something she wishes to. Not saying that she can't learn, of course, but that you cannot reason with small children the same way you can with an adult.

So I guess in my own roundabout way, I'm trying to say that I do think spanking is different. Spanking offers a very tangible, forcible reason for the child in question to pay attention and do as they're told. Sometimes words just don't cut it. Like the aforementioned tantrum which involves her physically assaulting someone if they displease her. (For example me, when I throw away her toys, or another child she has a beef with. I think it is reasonable to teach a child that if you hit someone, expect to get hit right back. At least smacking them on the behind does not injure them. They should not be allowed to think that they can walk all over someone without consequence.)

I also think it is appropriate to spank when they do something that they have been repeatedly warned not to do that would jeopardize their safety. Like climbing on the shelves to reach the household cleaners or running across the street. A brief sting on the butt is not going to harm a child, but poisoning or becoming a road pancake will.


I have seen people manage to do either one effectively. Some people cash out words better than others. Some are better teachers than others. I'm not surprised.

Your child is still too young; see what happens in about ten years. If she loves you and doesn't regret anything about the way she was raised, that's great.

Spanking can also produce the same effects. It may shock many kids back to life, but I just got worse and worse. My parents would threaten me and I'd keep on not doing it anyway. I've already said, either way, you're just fucked.

As I've also said before, some people shouldn't of been parents. I've encountered many, many different types of people in my life. Almost nothing truly surprises me at this point. There's the passive, outgoing, and then everyone and everything in between. (I did enjoy the great diversity I received from all of you, applause!) Not all parents will have the heart (or brain, for that matter) to be able to explain things to their kids properly, and vice versa. If everyone raised their kids up one way and were all perfect, we wouldn't need to have such a discussion like this. Child issues would definitely be cut down considerably.

I was very obedient and mature as a child, even isolated and hampered by my parents and family. I was most definitely not representative of the average American little girl or even average Asian American girl. I'll be the first to admit it. When I reached high school, I began to skip school every other day, but it never got worse than that. I went to an alternative high school (chock full of kids pregnant or addicted to drugs and sex at seventeen) and hated it. I never even had a social life. Left high school six months after I turned fifteen and was in college at the age of sixteen. This probably affected my views on many, many things.

It's like we've been saying the same stuff over and over in this thread. Passing plates back and forth.

Your approach really seems like what LouBarrett is saying.
Test Subject
#58 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 3:06 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Vanito
No offence.. but I find this quite extreme. With a belt, in front of the rest.


If they explain it not well, how can you know? You can teach kids things in two ways: talk or punish. If a kid repeats things after they explain it, you should wonder if the kid doesnt understand it or if it just doesnt wanna to. Then you can punish, but still.. why use belts and go that far. The way you were punished would be child abuse here.



It was a belt and we only got hit on the plams of our hands- whether that time of spanking is labelled abuse here or not- I dont know- thats just the way we grew up being punished.

As for not understanding them- I dont know what to say to that. I was a stubborn kid- and I like having things my own way- and yes sometimes I refused to listen to what my parents told me- because I just did not want to. Now I've come to see that they love me more than anyone else here on this earth- and they want nothing but the best for me and my siblings- so they would never lead me in a wrong way- but as a child- I did not always see this.

I am not saying that all parents who spank there kids are like this- but my parents were- they did not do it because they liked to do it- they did it because they saw us doing something wrong- and whated us to stop doing it-talking does not always work- sometimes you need to give the kids something they would remember for the next time. And I know that sounds bad- some kids need it.

example- my cousin's kids- she does not believe in spanking- so she punishes her kids by time outs and taking away their toys- But as far as I see her methods dont work- because her kids are still yelling and cussing her out from the time out chair.-f she took their games away- they went into the kitchen and started breaking things in their temper tantrums
I took them to the video store once and was SO embarassed because they were making so much noise and pulling stuff off the shelves and no talking to them would make them stop= in the end- the workers asked us to leave- or atleast take the kids outside.
My mother never had to put up with this kind of behavior from us- one cuss word in front of her- and it was smack smack on the hands- and we back in line- and apologizing for being rude.

anyways I am not saying that one form of discipline is better than the other (my best friend did not get spanked as a child and she turned out ok) but some children needs more than words to get their attention.
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Original Poster
#59 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 3:16 AM
Quote: Originally posted by mrscrane
I am not saying that all parents who spank there kids are like this- but my parents were- they did not do it because they liked to do it- they did it because they saw us doing something wrong- and whated us to stop doing it-talking does not always work- sometimes you need to give the kids something they would remember for the next time. And I know that sounds bad- some kids need it.

example- my cousin's kids- she does not believe in spanking- so she punishes her kids by time outs and taking away their toys- But as far as I see her methods dont work- because her kids are still yelling and cussing her out from the time out chair.-f she took their games away- they went into the kitchen and started breaking things in their temper tantrums
I took them to the video store once and was SO embarassed because they were making so much noise and pulling stuff off the shelves and no talking to them would make them stop= in the end- the workers asked us to leave- or atleast take the kids outside.
My mother never had to put up with this kind of behavior from us- one cuss word in front of her- and it was smack smack on the hands- and we back in line- and apologizing for being rude.

anyways I am not saying that one form of discipline is better than the other (my best friend did not get spanked as a child and she turned out ok) but some children needs more than words to get their attention.


Part of the reason why it's so effective is because in almost all cases, it happens to young children (just the same way most homeless are elderly). Kids are fresh and new to the world, and they brace at anything physical. That's how they learned so well. It's rather evident that it does not work out well in some cases, though, because they "rise against the machine" later in life.

What kind of talking are you people on? Dr. Phil? He tells us to "get real", but if you really wanted psychological help, Phil McGraw isn't the candidate. We all know this, you say. Apparently not the pitiful low-income Americans who keep turning up on his, Oprah, Maury, and Jerry Springer's shows.

I would imagine it has quite a lot to do with the family size. It sounded like your cousin had at least two or three kids. I doubt she had time to properly sit down and take care of all of them.

In the old Asian days, they used to do it simply because the parents felt so lost and out of control. With the average Asian family having ten or eleven children, it was much easier to just SMACKSMACKSMACK! (Why they wanted so many is a different matter entirely.) Somehow, because they found it effective, it came to be practiced in schools and future generations.
Scholar
#60 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 3:41 AM
Quote: Originally posted by WannabeSith
Of course, I have also stumbled upon another method which is effective for my own daughter. Spanking is only used when my other method is met by a tantrum (the kind where the kid is so mad they hit you). Instead, I start throwing her toys in the trash can. You know, losing some of their favorite things for good can be a great motivator. If it's just a temporary confiscation, I've found that it just becomes a waiting game to the kid most of the time, where they are waiting just long enough between bad behaviors so they can get their toy back. In that case, they haven't really learned anything except how to outlast Mommy or Daddy.


LOL, OMG.

When I was driving with my sister-in-law and her THREE BOYS, ages 1, 2, and 3, they started misbehaving in the car, so she took the toy robot they were fighting over, gave it to me, and told me to toss it out the window as she was driving on the freeway. I did it, and they wailed and sobbed, and the mother chastened them, and finally they were quiet and said they'd behave.

It was EPIC. Their tears were delicious.




Btw, something to add to the topic of time-outs-- as an intensely introverted person and child, I actually *liked* getting punished with time outs. Ten minutes alone with my thoughts and no one's allowed to bother me??? YES!!! Please, count me in!

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Original Poster
#61 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 4:06 AM
Quote: Originally posted by robokitty
LOL, OMG.

When I was driving with my sister-in-law and her THREE BOYS, ages 1, 2, and 3, they started misbehaving in the car, so she took the toy robot they were fighting over, gave it to me, and told me to toss it out the window as she was driving on the freeway. I did it, and they wailed and sobbed, and the mother chastened them, and finally they were quiet and said they'd behave.

It was EPIC. Their tears were delicious.




Btw, something to add to the topic of time-outs-- as an intensely introverted person and child, I actually *liked* getting punished with time outs. Ten minutes alone with my thoughts and no one's allowed to bother me??? YES!!! Please, count me in!


Never had those, either. Parents trying to take our stuff away from me was next to nothing; my sister or nieces were much more violent and effective than they were. We never had good stuff, anyway. It seems like no method is 100% perfect or effective. I'm willing to bet they all learned as traditions, as I've already said 66,000 times before.
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#62 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 8:39 AM
Spanking can be effective as punishment (when applied with a clear head, not in a moment of anger, and only sparingly), or it can be abuse (beating with a belt, doing it when you're pissed at a kid, or all the time for the slightest offense). It all depends on how it's applied. I was spanked only twice as a child and came out fine - the rest of the time, time outs, removing privlidges, or just talking to me worked just as well.

I don't plan on spanking my son. I had planned on it before he was born. I thought spanking was just fine then and something I'd probably do - I'd done it to my sister's kids when I was taking care of them and it was effective. But once I held my son in my arms, I couldn't fathom raising a hand to him, even just swats on the butt. I would prefer to reason with him, or explore other methods of discipline. I want home to be a place of safety and calm and love. I've become a lot more of a hippie since becoming a parent, more so than I ever thought I would be, but I think in the long run, dealing with unruly children with a raised hand is probably not the way to go for most children and most situations.

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#63 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 8:46 AM
Quote: Originally posted by HystericalParoxysm
I don't plan on spanking my son. I had planned on it before he was born. I thought spanking was just fine then and something I'd probably do - I'd done it to my sister's kids when I was taking care of them and it was effective. But once I held my son in my arms, I couldn't fathom raising a hand to him, even just swats on the butt. I would prefer to reason with him, or explore other methods of discipline. I want home to be a place of safety and calm and love. I've become a lot more of a hippie since becoming a parent, more so than I ever thought I would be, but I think in the long run, dealing with unruly children with a raised hand is probably not the way to go for most children and most situations.


Good post. I was pretty desensitized by my own experiences and had thought the same thing. I didn't think spanking was wrong and intended to use it if I had to. Although I know it's not nearly the same thing, as I got older and my baby sister was born, I realized that there was just something wrong with the notion that harming her was the way to go.

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#64 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 9:27 AM Last edited by 1ove : 15th Sep 2009 at 9:50 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by HystericalParoxysm
Spanking can be effective as punishment (when applied with a clear head, not in a moment of anger, and only sparingly), or it can be abuse (beating with a belt, doing it when you're pissed at a kid, or all the time for the slightest offense). It all depends on how it's applied. I was spanked only twice as a child and came out fine - the rest of the time, time outs, removing privlidges, or just talking to me worked just as well.

I don't plan on spanking my son. I had planned on it before he was born. I thought spanking was just fine then and something I'd probably do - I'd done it to my sister's kids when I was taking care of them and it was effective. But once I held my son in my arms, I couldn't fathom raising a hand to him, even just swats on the butt. I would prefer to reason with him, or explore other methods of discipline. I want home to be a place of safety and calm and love. I've become a lot more of a hippie since becoming a parent, more so than I ever thought I would be, but I think in the long run, dealing with unruly children with a raised hand is probably not the way to go for most children and most situations.


I don't understand why it seems to vary so much. And then people can brag that their kids are mirrored after them? Umm, sorry, but why is this something to be proud of again? How come they turned out like that?

I think it's wonderful you were able to "wake up" and just totally turn around after you had your kid. Most people aren't able to just change their attitudes so easily, even after they've been through all the same things. It's like Nicole Richie (hopefully minus the drugs and spoiled past, at least I'd think so): hey, if it keeps you from doing harm or being trashy, so be it!

Quote: Originally posted by WCF
Good post. I was pretty desensitized by my own experiences and had thought the same thing. I didn't think spanking was wrong and intended to use it if I had to. Although I know it's not nearly the same thing, as I got older and my baby sister was born, I realized that there was just something wrong with the notion that harming her was the way to go.


I never felt this way about my cousins and their kids (I was the youngest out of a giant family; eight aunts and uncles on Dad's, nine on Ma's, and they all popped and had their kids grow up before me). If anything, it somehow took a step backwards; I was already annoyed with their personalities and how they turned out. I already knew their children would all follow suit. Of course, it's different for me because I don't live in the same house with them and we see them once a year, if even that. But your little sister has done you good, cheers. We can only hope for better in the future after everything we've learned as kids.

Me and my sister are desensitized as well. Very little surprises me.

Quote:
As I've also said before, some people shouldn't of been parents. I've encountered many, many different types of people in my life. Almost nothing truly surprises me at this point. There's the passive, outgoing, and then everyone and everything in between. (I did enjoy the great diversity I received from all of you, applause!) Not all parents will have the heart (or brain, for that matter) to be able to explain things to their kids properly, and vice versa. If everyone raised their kids up one way and were all perfect, we wouldn't need to have such a discussion like this. Child issues would definitely be cut down considerably.


I'm surprised by many of your reactions here. I thought everyone would be OHNOSHUTUP1OVEWE'LLJUSTHITTHEM! Of course, there were a few negatives, as usual, but almost all responses here are well thought-out and logical.
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#65 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 11:22 AM Last edited by CuddlesdaTeddlyBear : 15th Sep 2009 at 6:27 PM. Reason: correcting poor grammar
My mom wasn't much of a talker, she just had that look and she knew us so well she could tell when we were up to something. All she had to do was give us that 'look' or drape the belt around her shoulders and we'd be quiet as field mice. My mom never beat us for things like bad grades, she'd take away the nintendo or make us stay in the patio to study and we weren't allowed in the house until we'd finished our homework or it was time for lunch.

My mother used to collect these ceramic statues and we used to take them out of the cabinet and play with them when she wasn't home, even though she told us they were decorative; not toys and warned us not to touch them. Of course, when she noticed one or two missing we got roasted for it.

Sometimes spanking should be a last resort but it is important that a child know why they're being punished. I learned to respect other people's property from that and I never borrow things from others.
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#66 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 2:47 PM
Quote: Originally posted by CuddlesdaTeddlyBear

My mother used to collect these ceramic statues and we used to take them out of the cabinet and play with them when she wasn't home, even though she told us they were decorative; not toys and warned us not to touch them. Of course, when she noticed one or two missing we got roasted for it.

Sometimes spanking should be a last resort but it is important that a child know why their being punished. I learned to respect other people's property from that and I never borrow things from others.


Funny enough, I had a similar experience at four of five years of age. I wanted to take a look of a porcelain soap bottle my mom had just bought, and while reaching out for it, it fell on on the floor and shattered. Mom heard it, and I to ran under my blanket and screamed IT WAS AN ACCIDENT and she grabbed me and whooped my ass for good. Now, I was very traumatized by that and was terrified of her until I hit my teens. I couldn't even look her in the eyes as a kid!

It depends very much of the child in question, how they respond to it, but for me, IT DID NO GOOD, just created a massive feeling of insecurity and mom didn't know how to rebuild our relationship.

Is it really worth testing out how the child responses? I mean, it can ruin a childhood completely. Talking things through is much better, and if the child is stubborn, you punish, not beat.
Field Researcher
#67 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 4:15 PM
Quote: Originally posted by girlgeek19
Ethics aside, psychologically speaking, positive reinforcement is always much more effective than punishment. You're much more likely to get the behavior you want if you reinforce the positive rather than focusing on punishing the negative.


That's so true When my brother was little he had hearing problems (had a tumor in his ear that they didn't discover for a few years) which put him behind developmentally. He misbehaved every single day in school and every single day he'd get in the car and my mom would ask him what bad thing he did in school today and he'd give her a list "I cheated on my test. I kicked someone on the playground. I didn't sit in my seat. etc". and my mom would tell him he's bad for doing that and punish him. Luckily she didn't resort to spanking as many would, but she still reinforced the bad things he did. He'd do bad things because he knew she expected it and he wanted attention. She talked to her mom about it and her mom suggested that she changed what she asked him to "What good things did you do today?" so she tried it. She'd congratulate every good thing he did and if he brought up a bad thing without her asking she'd say "Just try not to do that again, but what good things did you do today?". He changed so much that his teacher called my mom up to tell her. He stopped doing the bad things because mom expected him to do good things

To address the original post:
I don't agree with smacking and I hope to never have to smack my kids however.. sometimes it may be necessary. Even if there's something else you can try if you don't know about it or how to try it there's not much you can do. Smacking a kid on the hand or butt (not smacking them until they're bruised and bleeding which is child abuse) is okay if the child won't respond to any other form of punishment you've tried. It's better than the child running around being a rude little brat because it's not being punished in a way that it learns from. It should never be a first resort though, there's many other things you can try. My brother and I were never smacked, my mom had been in an abusive relationship with my dad and she couldn't imagine inflicting pain on her children after what happened to her. For me, I was almost always well behaved. Just knowing that doing bad things made my mom sad was enough to stop me from doing them. Even now if we get into a bad argument to where she's really sad or angry I feel TERRIBLE because I hate that I can cause her to feel that way. She's the same for me, she hates if she ever makes me sad or angry. My mom tried other approaches that worked well for me, sometimes it was timeouts but normally it was just her explaining why something's bad to do ("It makes me heart hurt when you and your brother fight." "You could burn your hand which hurts really bad!" etc). But that doesn't work for every child. You can't say you'll absolutely use this method or this method and your child will end up perfect, you have to gear the discipline towards each individual child. Some kids may think it's fine to be smacked because it means their parent is paying attention to them, some kids may become terrified of their parents because of it, etc.
Field Researcher
#68 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 4:43 PM
Hitting kids, just like hitting pets, accomplishes nothing except make them fear and hate, especially if it's not accompanied with an explanation for why the kid was hit.

My father was the kind of person who was raised on spanking and smacking, and so that is how he raised his children, he did not know any other way then. I often think that I basically learned to run before I learned to walk. Spanking or smacking could come for any reason, even just playing and being kids (being noisy kids could earn us a spanking that would not let us sit for hours I tell ya).

The result: confused kids, kids that would hate their siblings (I hated being punished for my brother because I was the oldest and it just had to be my fault), kids that would not trust their parents (my mother would not dare oppose my father so not only did I fear and hate my father then, I also didn't feel like I could turn to my mother for anything), kids that can potentially turn violent then and later in life (I won't even give examples of what I've done here).

Personally, it took until I was about to turn 29 for me and my father to have a good relationship.


While I do agree that kids need something to shake them up a bit and get their attention, spanking and smacking is not the way to go. A mother might be totally freaked out after she saw her 3 year old run across the street to get their ball, but smacking as a response of the adrenaline rush she has is not going to accomplish anything, ever.

Oh and on a side note (and not aimed at anyone in particular, just to point out how stupid the spanking argument can often be), spanking a kid to teach them they should never hit their siblings is kinda counter productive (do what I say not what I do sort of lesson... right).
Scholar
Original Poster
#69 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 5:33 PM Last edited by 1ove : 15th Sep 2009 at 9:50 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by lilliandulcia
I don't agree with smacking and I hope to never have to smack my kids however.. sometimes it may be necessary. Even if there's something else you can try if you don't know about it or how to try it there's not much you can do.


Too many people make bad choices. They abuse it and beat the crap out of their kids. TBH, we've already covered the light "tap on the head" or whatever. I'm starting to wonder if the past six or so new posters have even been reading the entire thread (starting from WannabeSith). A lot of good stuff in here.

I remember telling a Christian friend (I am not Christian and have accompanied her to church on one occasion), "I remember reading a quote on LiveJournal, 'Because people to whom sin is just a matter of words, to them salvation is just words, too.'"
So she said, "It is just words, yes. It is until you can wake up and realize everything... for yourself." People make bad decisions! Come on now!

Quote: Originally posted by Neerie
Oh and on a side note (and not aimed at anyone in particular, just to point out how stupid the spanking argument can often be), spanking a kid to teach them they should never hit their siblings is kinda counter productive (do what I say not what I do sort of lesson... right).


Hypocrisy as it's finest!
Scholar
Original Poster
#71 Old 16th Sep 2009 at 1:18 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Cyberian_Trooper
Maybe if more people planned on having kids in the first place it would be good if had some experience with children. Baby sit other people's kids and find out whether or not you can handle children.

Volunteer is another way because you can develop some skills where you mite learn something other then just discussing it. People need to get off their bums and actually experience being around children.

Get a pet and teach it some discipline and learn to take care of it because I think if more people could more about child raising if they had some responsibilities like that in their life.

Some one once said to me that having a pet is like a child. You have to learn patience with both pets and children. Both can teach people something about kids.


That's a good idea, but it also becomes severely limited and less common in urban areas. I live in LA, and neither I nor any of my family, friends, or classmates ever babysat in our lives. No one has a cat or dog; they're all strays. I've only ever had small pets, like turtles or fish. I had a couple chickens once that I won from school at fourteen; that was cute. My dad raised some in Vietnam so he knew what was going on.

Quote: Originally posted by Cyberian_Trooper
They believed in a lot of lies that came from other people sometimes and lately I have sorted some of that crap out with my parents after all these years.


They did buy into a lot, but we never changed. None of us did. We just learned to ignore it and hope for a better future. I would hate how our parents listened to everything and everyone.

Quote: Originally posted by Cyberian_Trooper
This is why I think people should really think if they are ready for marriage and if they can handle having kids. Kids don't deserve to live with someone's mental baggage.

There are those parents who haven't matured from their past and they drag their kids through their own garbage where kids can suffer as a result of them not dealing with their own crap.


Off topic, but it reminds me of the Yates and their friends. One guy said, "Whenever I go out and see parents scolding or hitting their children, I feel sad now. I feel like going up to them and telling them, 'You don't know how lucky you are to even have those kids. Time with them is more precious than you'd believe.'" He's a big hypocrite, though, because I'm convinced he did something to make his wife pop so many.

This is sad, because it seems to be mostly that people who want kids can never have them. Those who hate them always end up canned and pregnant, eight kids on crack. I don't know how some people even managed to raise these kids as long as they have now, but it obviously shows.

And yeah, don't take it out on us. Just because you're close-minded and had a terrible childhood... Never mind.
Scholar
#72 Old 16th Sep 2009 at 1:47 AM
Quote: Originally posted by mrscrane
As for not understanding them- I dont know what to say to that. I was a stubborn kid- and I like having things my own way- and yes sometimes I refused to listen to what my parents told me- because I just did not want to. Now I've come to see that they love me more than anyone else here on this earth- and they want nothing but the best for me and my siblings- so they would never lead me in a wrong way- but as a child- I did not always see this.

Its good you do not have backwards regrets or anything. I'm sure your parents had it harder with many kids. As a child you do not realise what your parents do for you. Only growing up you come to see what sacrifices your parents make to have kids.

My stubbornness varies mainly on the way a person acts. I get stubborn when I am pushed into things and simply don't do it. No way people get me to do things that way. If people push on I either ignore them or get explode after a while, depends on the way they act. If there is no pushing, but worry, concern and nagging about worriess, I am way more easy. Its a lot harder to refuse someone nice who seems sincerely worried. My mom always had it easier to get me to do things than my dad, same goes for my bro.
My mom has always been very patient both with me and my bro, she often cleaned up me and my bros room for the so maniest time because we didn't feel like it. Or sitting long with me and my bro to get us to do homework. And then praise you like shit you do your best at school. That became quite motivating after a while, getting good scores is motivating as well. But still dang.. unimaginable how involved she has been. Both my parents are extremely chill. Very openminded. They are both parenst and friends, but always parents first.


"When the moon is in the seventh house
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars"
Lab Assistant
#74 Old 16th Sep 2009 at 2:17 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Cyberian_Trooper

If you look at these video's this kid is handful and I don't think any parent wants to deal with that. I think it's a two way street here and I have to wonder if she really needs to get some counseling her self? What mother going to say national television that she hits her kids?

She could be lying for all we know and maybe if she was lying then it probably would be because child services ears would perk up if she were to say yes I have hit my kids. If she can't remember then something wrong right there. (Assuming she could be lying but it's really hard to know that for certain.)


KID/SON SLAPS HIS MOTHER ON DR.PHIL (FULL)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U5R...feature=related

Dr.Phil talks with the mother and son (After the slap)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLCI...feature=related



I can only laugh at the irony behind this. A mother cannot confess to raising her hand to her child on national TV (she's clearly lying) for fear of the consequences, but must live with the embarrassment of her child hitting her on national television and seen in the eyes of the viewers as a bad mother.

It's a shame when society's views on what is deem a barbaric act restricts a parent from properly conditioning a child to be a respectful and contributory member in that same society. Agreed, it depends on the individual and some have a higher threshold for punishment than others, but to allow a child to recklessly do what they want without properly rearing them is neglectful. There was alot less delinquency in the old days for a reason.
Lab Assistant
#75 Old 16th Sep 2009 at 2:36 AM
Using spanking or physical discipline all depends on what the child is doing and why they are doing it, I cannot stress enough that the function of behaviour is key in learning how to handle it. Some people believe that physical discipline is a one size fits all approach to punishment, I can tell you right now that has to be the most ignorant thing I have ever heard and it can lead to situation like this: if you spank a child because they are trying to get your attention by misbehaving...guess what? You just gave them what they were looking for, instead of punishing the behaviour, you rewarded it. Go you!

In my profession, we are only to use physical discipline as the last resort and only in cases where a person engages in severe self-harm. We are expected to find other ways to punish and to change behaviour and I have to say, most of the children I've dealt with misbehave because they want attention, (from you, the teacher, their parents, their classmates, etc). The proper way to punish an attention-motivated behaviour is extinction (time-out, in other words) and I have seen it work -if- the child is given another behaviour to be used as a replacement to get attention that isn't disruptive or harmful or irritating. People like ignoring that bit ... if you are going to end a behaviour, replace with something else that functions the same way, for the love of Watson.

I believe personally for me and my homelife that physical discipline should only be used when a child does something drastically unsafe like running towards the road without looking for cars or going near a electrical socket with a fork but it shouldn't be left with just a spanking or a smack on the hand. I would explain the personal harm it would cause them and take measures to ensure that they learn how to look both ways before crossing the street or covering the electrical sockets with those plastic tabs.

"I am a fly in the ointment, I am a whisper in the shadows. I am also an old, old woman. More than that you need not know."
 
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