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Field Researcher
#26 Old 9th May 2017 at 7:44 PM
I think the problem is how to approach the subject in a way that people with disabilities feel respected and will be hard because it can't be shallow (and sims 4 and 3 too have a reputation to be shallow).

Maybe they could make the disabilities temporary somehow, like a state? For example, your sims broke a leg and has to use a wheelchair. Or your sim has a harder time than other sims dealing with the passing of a loved one because of a trait like "sensitive" (instead of calling them sims with depression). Bipolars could reenact their disorder with a trait too, maybe a trait that make sims get happy and sad in short bursts of time, they could call it moody or something.

Maybe that way won't be disrespectful for people with disabilities and will incorporate possible gameplay to reflect the daily life for the players with disabilities?

But I think is a very delicated topic and maybe that is why they didn't include till now. Since they include gender issues, maybe they can include disabilites too one day?
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Field Researcher
#27 Old 10th May 2017 at 4:31 AM Last edited by grindingteeth : 10th May 2017 at 4:41 AM.
I agree It will likely never happen. First of all, the sims may be a 'life simulator', but it is in no way a 'real life simulator'; there's little to no realism in the sims and there's a lot less to be found in the Sims 4 than perhaps some of the other iterations, with a few exceptions of course. In The Sims universe everything is cartoon-ish and exaggerated, animated, stylized, a little (or a lot) silly; It would take a very delicate sensibility to bring these things into the game without stepping on toes. Also, what would be included? What would be excluded? Games like this cater to the majority (unfortunately) rather than the minority, and yes - there are a lot of people with disabilities, but they are all different and greatly varied.

There are (arguably) two or three mental illnesses in the game already. One being uhm...'insane', which rolls bi-polar and schizophrenia into one, kleptomaniac and (sort of) hot-headed... which is basically having anger management issues. That might be reaching though.

If you've ever played a character with the insane trait, you'll already know there's nothing really delicate about the way they handled that. I am not hating on the trait - I like that it's in the game. I've also never seen anyone complain about it though, so maybe people aren't as easy to offend as we think? (hahah)

It comes down to the extra animations and assets they'd need to input disabilities into the game and the pay-off for that work they'd get. I think they'd be better off working on giving the people pets and weather.

How would they market such a pack?
It certainly wouldn't be snuck in for free... 'Disabilities' is much more intensive and broad than toddlers.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#28 Old 10th May 2017 at 5:06 AM
Quote: Originally posted by nitromon
However, everything he just said is how EA sees it. That's why you get a Katy Perry Sweet Treats pack.

Btw, I'm pretty sure I saw either here or on the Sims 3 website that someone made a disabled sims mod, you know sims with 1 leg or 1 arm etc... I'm pretty sure it was Sims 3 though, b/c it was a while back.



I didn't want to get involved in what you 2 are talking about, but your attitude and comment are being extremely unfair to him to the point it is unacceptable. You are misrepresenting what he is saying either purposely or you simply are so emotionally compromised you can't read straight. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt with the latter reasoning.

He is merely expressing his discomfort with the subject and would like to be shielded from it. He never suggested "independent people with disabilities are weird, dark, and creepy." You are putting words in his mouth, distorting what he's saying to attack him.

Stop it.



Seriously? So you think all Russians are offended by gay marriage and trans? Or you just think everyone who is not Russian accept gay marriage and trans?

I think this comment itself is pretty indicative I shouldn't have given you the benefit of the doubt.


I was referencing the fact that the game was rated "18 plus" in Russia for "including gay propoganda."
Field Researcher
#30 Old 11th May 2017 at 4:43 AM
Quote: Originally posted by nitromon
I meant that EA likes to keep the game "teeny-bopping" friendly. They don't call it fuck, they call it woohoo. They don't call it alcohol, they call it nectar. etc...

---

(reply to general audience)

Anyways, I think this topic is ridiculous in how it is being handled. Seriously, this is a computer game and people getting offended? If you like to have more realism in the game by having disabled people, that's cool. You're entitled to your opinion. If you don't want more realism in the game and want to keep it friendly, that's cool too. Why do we all need to agree?

I don't allow fat people in my game. I don't want to see a bunch of fatties running around in my world. If I see them, I round them up and force them to the gym and make them work it! So what? Anyone offended? It is my game. I'll do what I want.

So many snowflakes these days, offended and spooked by every little fart in the wind. I mean what about people who want realism such as murderers? Random murderers sprouting in the game and murder your sims? Or burglars that beat up your sims and rob the place? Or how about the jealousy interactions can cause a jilted sim to murder? Serial killer sims?

I mean, you want to have a discussion, then have a discussion. If you claim to be "tolerant" progressives, then be tolerant. Stop being so easily offended.



What you like in a game and what I like are 2 different things, you don't like fat people I get tired of all the asian names and people. Nothing wrong with it I like different things, but that doesn't mean I am offended but what you do or don't like. Just enjoy the game how ever you like and don't take it so serious. It is just a game people
Scholar
#31 Old 11th May 2017 at 12:13 PM
Because:

1. People would get shitty EA didn't portray a physical or mental disability accurately. (Or how that particular players believes it should be portrayed.)

2. People would get shitty EA didn't include a particular disability in the game. It's more than just being blind, or deaf, or wheelchair bound. Intellectual disabilities, physical disabilities, disabilities brought on by a disease, mental illnesses, etc. There's a lot, too much for one EP or patch to include.

3. Each disability or non-able bodied sim requires a lot new work. How will a sim in a wheelchair interact with an object? They'll require new animations for everything. What if the sim is a little person? Again, an entirely new set of animations. When dealing with a sim who is deaf, how will they interact with other sims? What if that sim has autism? Numerous disabilities and conditions requiring numerous animations and programming for each one is a lot of work for a company that couldn't be arsed including toddlers in The Sims 4 until two years later.

4. It would never be markatable to their consumers. Same with diseases. The average player isn't going to rush out and drop money because their sim could now become bed-ridden due to MS, paralysed in a car accident, or their self-sim gives birth to a child with down syndrome.

I'm writing a TV series, yeah. It's a cross between True Detective and Pretty Little Liars.
Lab Assistant
#32 Old 11th May 2017 at 4:53 PM
They haven't even added lounge chairs because of how much it would take to get it all animated properly. I can't even imagine how long and money intensive it would be to get a sim in a wheelchair properly animated and working fluidly with everything else in the game. And that would only cover one TINY sliver of the various kinds of disabilities out there. I don't intend any offense here, but I personally just don't feel it would be worth it to put so much into trying to bring such a broad topic to life in the game when the sims has never been about being super realistic anyway, and when there are so many other themes out there that probably have a more broad appeal and that they can actually fit into the scope of a pack without stepping on anyone's toes.

I mean, I wouldn't mind if they added some disabilities into the game, it's just there are a lot of other things I would rather have and there's only so much time and money to be put into the game. I don't see it as EA pretending certain people don't exist, it's just that this has never been the focus of the sims and many people use the game as a lighthearted escape. Heck, I couldn't even make a simself in sims 4 if I wanted to because I have albinism irl and all the hairs and eyes in the game are way too dark. Not everyone is going to be able to be perfectly represented in a sims game and I think that's ok given what the game is.
Theorist
#33 Old 11th May 2017 at 5:15 PM Last edited by Orphalesion : 11th May 2017 at 5:33 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by Kompaktive
Sims is for all-aged. It could be a dark game if sims has sim-disabilities.
Imagine there is a sim sat on wheel chair passing your house by themselves, then sim without leg, a blind sim walking by their own... No.
It's a good idea to enhance the gameplay when your sim is at elder state, but these gave me goosebumps.


What is wrong with you?
Quote: Originally posted by pirate_wolf_12
4. It would never be markatable to their consumers. Same with diseases. The average player isn't going to rush out and drop money because their sim could now become bed-ridden due to MS, paralysed in a car accident, or their self-sim gives birth to a child with down syndrome.


I agree somewhat, but would rather say it would be almost impossible to market in a tasteful manner While I think disabled Sims would be a good addition in many ways, advertising their existence as a specific feature would end up just as awkward as if they decided to advertise, let's say dark skinned Sims as a specific feature. It would create a picture of "otherness" and perhaps even "exoticism" that I, as a disabled person, would not be very happy about.
So the only way they could implement it would be in a new base-game and not calling special attention to it as an 'innovation", while also not hiding it.

In short; it's a marketing nightmare.

Beyond that several disabilities would be difficult to implement. A wheelchair might still be the easiest and deaf Sims too (they'd just talk in sign language instead of Simlish). But how do you make a blind version of a virtual creature, that can't *actually* see to begin with?
Sims missing a limb would already need large quantities of alternate animations, for a "feature" that might not be used by many and is difficult/impossible to market.
Mad Poster
#34 Old 11th May 2017 at 8:21 PM
Quote: Originally posted by nitromon
Anyways, I think this topic is ridiculous in how it is being handled. Seriously, this is a computer game and people getting offended? If you like to have more realism in the game by having disabled people, that's cool. You're entitled to your opinion. If you don't want more realism in the game and want to keep it friendly, that's cool too. Why do we all need to agree?
Frankly, I think there was an objection to the idea that only old people should be portrayed as disabled and that disabled people are in some way creepy or sad. The many comments about how likely it would be to get this, about how difficult it would be to implement in a way that didn't offend, or even the comments about choice were all fine as was a desire for people to want themselves represented. I thought your comments reflected something sensitive in your past experience, as if you were responding to things that weren't even said and getting offended by it.
Mad Poster
#35 Old 11th May 2017 at 9:07 PM Last edited by GrijzePilion : 11th May 2017 at 9:27 PM.
They gave Sims LGB, and later T rights. They gave Sims gender equal pay, and they gave Sims a world completely free of all kinds of racism and discrimination. Can't people just be satisfied for once?

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Lab Assistant
#36 Old 12th May 2017 at 12:23 AM
Ugh... why the f is it "dark" that I'm a disabled person who wants to be independent? It's not creepy, ffs. My friend and I are vision impaired. Another girl I know is in a wheelchair. We're all in university and aiming to make a life for ourselves. Didn't know that's "creepy". It's better than having a non-disabled person sit on their butt all day and complain and do nothing with their lives (Unless you have a mental illness, or caring for another person, it's kinda inexcusable).

It's much like the people who consider people with invisible disabilities not disabled. I'm vision impaired and I only rarely use my cane. People don't consider me disabled because of this.

Sorry it just ticked me off. A lot. But I would like disabled people in my game. I'm pretty happy to add custom traits to add stuff like Aspergers, ADHD, and mental illnesses, I'm happy for CC like cochlear implants, but it would be cool to have a Sim in a wheelchair for example.
Instructor
#37 Old 12th May 2017 at 12:32 AM
Quote: Originally posted by nitromon
I meant that EA likes to keep the game "teeny-bopping" friendly. They don't call it fuck, they call it woohoo. They don't call it alcohol, they call it nectar. etc...


Well that is because it would affect ratings, for example Fallout 3 had the word Morphine changed to Med-X because of the Australian classification board, if they actually named it Alcohol you would see a "Alcohol Reference" in the ESRB rating content description, it even might bump the rating from Teen to Mature that now doesnt have much of a effect on sales (gone are the days of Walmart refusal of selling M rated games having a effect in sales) but still it would be now a Mature rated game.

There are in the ESRB content descriptions the following ... Sexual Themes, Sexual Content, Strong Sexual Content and Sexual Violence as The Sims 4 does have Sexual Themes, you might see how just using the word "sex" would push it to Sexual Content so the "teeny-bopping" friendly is more related to ESRB rating check list (you dont think they actually PLAY the games they rate? Its a checklist) that any effort of being Family-Fun.
Mad Poster
#38 Old 12th May 2017 at 12:35 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Drakron
Well that is because it would affect ratings, for example Fallout 3 had the word Morphine changed to Med-X because of the Australian classification board, if they actually named it Alcohol you would see a "Alcohol Reference" in the ESRB rating content description, it even might bump the rating from Teen to Mature that now doesnt have much of a effect on sales (gone are the days of Walmart refusal of selling M rated games having a effect in sales) but still it would be now a Mature rated game.

There are in the ESRB content descriptions the following ... Sexual Themes, Sexual Content, Strong Sexual Content and Sexual Violence as The Sims 4 does have Sexual Themes, you might see how just using the word "sex" would push it to Sexual Content so the "teeny-bopping" friendly is more related to ESRB rating check list (you dont think they actually PLAY the games they rate? Its a checklist) that any effort of being Family-Fun.

And keep in mind that they also have to check out with PEGI and other ratings systems, so they have to assume the most restrictive form of every aspect of the ratings in order to satisfy the age rating they want to achieve. If saying "sex" and "intercourse" is okay with ESRB but not with PEGI, they can't say either word.

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Instructor
#39 Old 12th May 2017 at 12:58 AM
Quote: Originally posted by GrijzePilion
And keep in mind that they also have to check out with PEGI and other ratings systems, so they have to assume the most restrictive form of every aspect of the ratings in order to satisfy the age rating they want to achieve. If saying "sex" and "intercourse" is okay with ESRB but not with PEGI, they can't say either word.


PEGI is european is not as harsh as ESRB, PEGI ratings tend to be lower that ESRB on the same games, in The Sims 4 it have a rating of +12, they have a rating of +16 and +18, ESRB have that stupidity of Mature and Adults Only were its only notable inclusions are GTA:San Andreas because of the Hot Coffee, the uncut version of Manhunt 2 (with the cut version being the one so they could get a M rating), Fahrenheit: Indigo Prophecy (for the fact it being shi ... there are sex scenes on that "game") and Hatred (this was mostly "political"). Hell Singles is AO by ESRB and only 16+ on PEGI.

Those are the big ones, Japan have CERO but NA and EU combined make the largest market, everyone else kinda takes a backseat
Mad Poster
#40 Old 12th May 2017 at 12:08 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Drakron
PEGI is european is not as harsh as ESRB, PEGI ratings tend to be lower that ESRB on the same games, in The Sims 4 it have a rating of +12, they have a rating of +16 and +18, ESRB have that stupidity of Mature and Adults Only were its only notable inclusions are GTA:San Andreas because of the Hot Coffee, the uncut version of Manhunt 2 (with the cut version being the one so they could get a M rating), Fahrenheit: Indigo Prophecy (for the fact it being shi ... there are sex scenes on that "game") and Hatred (this was mostly "political"). Hell Singles is AO by ESRB and only 16+ on PEGI.
Those are the big ones, Japan have CERO but NA and EU combined make the largest market, everyone else kinda takes a backseat

Yeah, obviously the European ratings system will be more tolerant. We get to have titties and profanity on television here, even before the watershed.

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Test Subject
Original Poster
#41 Old 13th May 2017 at 7:00 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Orphalesion
What is wrong with you?


I agree somewhat, but would rather say it would be almost impossible to market in a tasteful manner While I think disabled Sims would be a good addition in many ways, advertising their existence as a specific feature would end up just as awkward as if they decided to advertise, let's say dark skinned Sims as a specific feature. It would create a picture of "otherness" and perhaps even "exoticism" that I, as a disabled person, would not be very happy about.
So the only way they could implement it would be in a new base-game and not calling special attention to it as an 'innovation", while also not hiding it.

In short; it's a marketing nightmare.

Beyond that several disabilities would be difficult to implement. A wheelchair might still be the easiest and deaf Sims too (they'd just talk in sign language instead of Simlish). But how do you make a blind version of a virtual creature, that can't *actually* see to begin with?
Sims missing a limb would already need large quantities of alternate animations, for a "feature" that might not be used by many and is difficult/impossible to market.


In honesty, I think the best way for EA to go about this would be to put characters with disabilities in the base game. Like they did with toddlers, for example.
Mad Poster
#42 Old 13th May 2017 at 7:10 PM
I think the best way to go about this would be not to bother at all. It's not like EA has any sort of obligation to add such functionality to the game, and what they did last year with the gender update was primarily intended as a PR move. Other than that, and getting us to think that they care, there's no reason why they would ever do something like it.

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Test Subject
#43 Old 13th May 2017 at 9:25 PM
If EA were to implement disabilities, I think one approach they could do would be to create new ones specific to Sims. Not to make fun of disabilities but to have that aspect of life where disabilities and diseases occur but not so realistic that it kills enjoyment, like with death in the game for example. It's real and present in The Sims and it's over-the-top silly but it's that way by design. For disabilities they could have some sort of silly aspect as well. Not to make fun but to simulate.

For example, say a sim for whatever reason can't eat grilled cheese sandwiches. If they do, their bladder need goes into a free fall. Or perhaps if a sim doesn't get their medication, from mail or computer, their energy need depletes twice as fast while on their medication it depletes as normal. For something like broken legs, perhaps a sim's walking speed is temporarily decreased by some event, thus they're less mobile but still on their legs. In second thought, I'm not sure I would like the latter; sims routing is already bad enough. I could continue on and these ideas aren't original but the point is that adding disabilities could be handled in a way so as not to have it be depressing. I know this can be a sensitive topic; I'm type 1 diabetic myself and understand why it would be offensive or depressing in the game. I don't mean to offend anyone by making it seem like EA should take disabilities lightly. I'm only offering one way they could go about this. Plus I'm not a game designer, so there's that.

Of course, on the other hand, there are aspects of life that could be a problem to simulate in The Sims. A line has to be drawn at some point. Racism, for example, is an aspect of life and it's something you can't really implement in a light-hearted way. Perhaps disabilities are one of those aspects.
Mad Poster
#44 Old 13th May 2017 at 9:59 PM
This isn't Theme Hospital, you know. The made-up illnesses in Get To Work were bad enough.

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Lab Assistant
#45 Old 14th May 2017 at 10:19 AM
Well clearly you've never actually played a Sims game. Everyone in it is mentally disabled.
Mad Poster
#46 Old 14th May 2017 at 11:51 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Anarchy Blues
Well clearly you've never actually played a Sims game. Everyone in it is mentally disabled.

It's not really noticeable if you're a bit challenged yourself. I'm too thick to really blame my Sims for anything.

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Virtual gardener
staff: administrator
#47 Old 14th May 2017 at 1:49 PM
I would suggest to keep things down, since it seems to be getting a bit out of hand. Else we do have to close this thread due to it getting out of hand. ^- ~
Field Researcher
#48 Old 14th May 2017 at 2:17 PM
I think maybe they could give things like canes to sims as "accessories"and reuse the elder or similar animations for those sims, give them a buff about how still hard is to get accessible buildings, it could be an introduction of disabled sims to the game, since like others said otherwise would be hard to tastefully market it.

But maybe with a beginning subtle introduction in sims 4 (and also because their budget seems to be not enough even for lounge chairs!), future sims games could bring more to the base game.


*Not saying that I believe would be the better way to introduce disabilities in the game, but is what prob they can do with "half bakedness" they have now and smaller team. I am all for seem more different things in sims. I wish the hospital in get to work let sim visit and get treated so on. Same for everything else. But that is me.*
Mad Poster
#49 Old 14th May 2017 at 2:30 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Greenplumbbob
I would suggest to keep things down.

Oh, now THAT would be interesting to have.
Sorry.

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Lab Assistant
#50 Old 14th May 2017 at 4:49 PM
Quote: Originally posted by GrijzePilion
It's not really noticeable if you're a bit challenged yourself. I'm too thick to really blame my Sims for anything.


When you're having Mortimer make a sandwich and he takes it upstairs to eat it in front of the makeup stand when there's a perfectly good table with two perfectly good chairs in the kitchen right next to the cooking area he was just in, I think it's safe to say that that boy ain't right.
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