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Mad Poster
#51 Old 14th May 2017 at 5:15 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Anarchy Blues
When you're having Mortimer make a sandwich and he takes it upstairs to eat it in front of the makeup stand when there's a perfectly good table with two perfectly good chairs in the kitchen right next to the cooking area he was just in, I think it's safe to say that that boy ain't right.

Again, only if you know better.

insert signature here
( Join my dumb Discord server if you're into the whole procrastination thing. But like, maybe tomorrow. )
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Mad Poster
#52 Old 14th May 2017 at 6:50 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Anarchy Blues
When you're having Mortimer make a sandwich and he takes it upstairs to eat it in front of the makeup stand when there's a perfectly good table with two perfectly good chairs in the kitchen right next to the cooking area he was just in, I think it's safe to say that that boy ain't right.
He wasn't right since the beginning of the series. Sometimes, he's felt like a creeper.
Virtual gardener
staff: administrator
#53 Old 14th May 2017 at 7:54 PM
True but uhm... isn't that more of a sims thing instead of a 'mortimer' thing?
Lab Assistant
#54 Old 14th May 2017 at 8:25 PM
Quote: Originally posted by VerDeTerre
He wasn't right since the beginning of the series. Sometimes, he's felt like a creeper.


Well he is based off Gomez Adams to some degree.
Turquoise Dragon
retired moderator
#55 Old 14th May 2017 at 8:39 PM
Did you know in Sims 2, that they programmed it so that a sim will go sit by someone he is in a relationship with, even if it is further away, and not as comfortable a seat etc.? Do they have that in 4 as well?
Mad Poster
#56 Old 15th May 2017 at 8:47 AM
All sims in TS4 are soo CHARISMATIC, and they really LOVE starting a conversation and socializing. And thus how musical chairs were invented by accident.
Field Researcher
#57 Old 15th May 2017 at 11:27 AM
Quote: Originally posted by SneakyWingPhoenix
All sims in TS4 are soo CHARISMATIC, and they really LOVE starting a conversation and socializing.

therefore they forgot to work when they were in retail
Mad Poster
#58 Old 15th May 2017 at 3:40 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Kompaktive
therefore they forgot to work when they were in retail

Yeah, that's bullshit, isn't it? In TS2, running a store and sleeping with one of your employees was a long-term project thing. In TS4, trying to not make it happen is all the rage. If only the idiots would do their job for once.

insert signature here
( Join my dumb Discord server if you're into the whole procrastination thing. But like, maybe tomorrow. )
Lab Assistant
#59 Old 15th May 2017 at 5:05 PM
Quote: Originally posted by gdayars
Did you know in Sims 2, that they programmed it so that a sim will go sit by someone he is in a relationship with, even if it is further away, and not as comfortable a seat etc.? Do they have that in 4 as well?


Sort of. Sims will tend to sit down while socializing, often next to whoever it is they are socializing with. It's more of an annoyance than anything else though, since many interactions can only be performed standing up.
Test Subject
#60 Old 2nd Jun 2018 at 9:42 AM
Quote: Originally posted by chiyomihamarulez
Hi everyone,

So I've been a devotee of the Sims since I was about 8, but I've noticed a consistent issue: there are no sims with disabilities in any of the games. To make matters worse there is almost no custom content to create characters with disabilities, either. Whether or not they meant to, what the Sims has done is create a fantasy world where we can marry aliens, but people with disabilities don't exist.

When I talked to the EA representatives, they said that the devs put in toddlers by popular demand from the players. I'm thinking if enough people ask for it, we can get sims with disabilities too.

So keeping that in mind, I made a petition! Please sign it so we can get the word out.

https://www.change.org/p/ea-games-i...s-in-the-sims-4


I am disabled, and many times I want to forget but in this the sims I would really like to have this. I have wanted this for years, I hope they listen. Thanks for trying.
Top Secret Researcher
#61 Old 2nd Jun 2018 at 10:06 AM
It really would be like designing a completely new game. It's not only about now designing sims with different animations. They would have to design completely new gameplay elements for each disability they would introduce. That's like deisgning new type of sim again and again, it's like designing a new game for each disability. Frankly, It's too much work for anyone and let alone EA who can't make snow properly.
Instructor
#62 Old 2nd Jun 2018 at 10:49 AM
I don't see it being too much of a marketing nightmare if they're willing to put the effort into including it as part of a wider expansion.

It's something that could be included with a more extensive "Hospital" or "Doctors & Nurses" kind of expansion pack. The main focus of the additional gameplay would be playing doctor with your Sims - being able to act as a doctor yourself, progress through the medical career, treat other sims and giving the hospital a wider use overall with things like giving birth, overnight stays, visiting your Sim's friends/relatives, cartoony diseases that actually have a visible affect on your Sim beyond the weird skin rashes we have in The Sims 4: Get To Work (think Theme Hospital, which did an amazing job of making diseases fun, rather than scary) and other mild "real-world" ailments like colds, aches, broken arms/legs and sprained ankles that could be afflicted on Sims when they fall over at the gym and through new animations such as tripping over while walking - something that might require a Sim to use crutches or wheelchairs temporarily in gameplay, but as a result of this, there could be the option of assigning these to a Sim through CAS as well because the animations would already be there as part of the wider gameplay? So the representation is there if a player wants it, but it's optional and not being marketed as the focus of the gameplay.

They tried to bring hospital gameplay into the game a little bit with The Sims 4: Get To Work, but I think it fell flat somewhat because they weren't able to give the hospital gameplay the attention it deserved because they also had detectives and scientists plus business to work on alongside it. I wouldn't expect it to happen in The Sims 4 now, unless they're willing to revisit the hospital gameplay, but if there's a Sims 5 it'd be nice for them to do this as there's clearly a growing demand for it amongst players.
Scholar
#63 Old 2nd Jun 2018 at 11:25 AM
The way they are handling the PR surrounding pets should tell you enough. I can already imagine some guru telling us that letting disabled sims be independant and move around by themselves in a wheelchair is cruel and sad. Instead they should be driven around at all time and wear colourful onesies.
Scholar
#64 Old 2nd Jun 2018 at 12:28 PM
A sim with any sort of crippling disability, would be just like adding in a new age group, every single animation that already exists will have to be looked at.

Then there's dozens of types of disabilities...

It's simply why we don't get short or tall adults.
Lab Assistant
#65 Old 2nd Jun 2018 at 2:18 PM
It would be a cool idea for the Sims 5, maybe. Ex: Sims in wheelchairs or deaf sims using sign language. Of course there are mental disabilities that definitely won't be added because EA can barely make sim's personalities distinct.

ooh ee ooh a-ah ting-tang walla walla bing bang
Top Secret Researcher
#66 Old 2nd Jun 2018 at 3:17 PM
I'd like to see:

- Sims using wheelchairs
- Deaf sims
- Blind sims

But this game does not have even fleshed out age groups (except toddlers and adults) and let alone disability groups.
Instructor
#67 Old 2nd Jun 2018 at 7:43 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Kompaktive
Imagine there is a sim sat on wheel chair passing your house by themselves, then sim without leg, a blind sim walking by their own... No.


I'm missing a leg. If I come walk by your house will you shit your pants?
Mad Poster
#68 Old 5th Jun 2018 at 6:41 AM
I posted this before. This is a no-win for EA. No matter what they would do or not do or how done some folks would not like what was done. And as said, it would be a major animation overhaul in some cases. I do not expect to see it happen.
Instructor
#69 Old 12th Jun 2018 at 5:24 AM
On the one hand I like the idea of mute Sims and wheelchair users and such...on the other hand...that's a nice extra in a game that's already satisfying and complete. Sims 4 doesn't even have the content from previous games and you want to add new stuff? Screw that. New stuff is waaaay waaay down my list of prorities when it comes to the Sims, maybe if we were talking about a different game in the franchise I'd be more enthused. But this game is not ready for any cherries on top. The non-disabled Sims need a huge overhaul in terms of autonomy and trait design first for instance. Don't put the cart before the Horse.
Mad Poster
#70 Old 12th Jun 2018 at 9:17 AM
TS4 does need balance of old and new stuff. Do I really need to remind what the title of the game emphasizes on? (The Sims and 4) Surely by mistake (HUGE mismanagement) or not (they thought they would get away), that sort of marketing failed on EA's part. It's a spin-off game, no matter what label you put on the cover of the disk package.

Regarding the topic, yeah but no. The Game is vast with bugs so how are you certain these disabilities that are under sims-in-a-wheelchair won't have these handicapped sims get up from their aided chair to wash a plate in from the basement to the third floor that has a sink while skipping the ones in between? Besides, there is a wider range of disabilities out there in the world which is as many as there are many species of insects/bugs than just a sim in a wheelchair and thus wouldn't represent all times of players that are classified with certain disabilities.

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Instructor
#71 Old 12th Jun 2018 at 10:47 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Citysim
A sim with any sort of crippling disability, would be just like adding in a new age group, every single animation that already exists will have to be looked at.

Then there's dozens of types of disabilities...

It's simply why we don't get short or tall adults.


There are disabilities they could realistically add with little effort though.

-Missing limbs could be dumbed down to simply being reskins of a normal leg or arm. Sure it's got it's issues since who the hell takes a shower or bath with their prosthetic on, but something is probably better than nothing when we're talking about the goal of inclusion.

-Dwarves or other height-challenged individuals could simply utilize child height and proportions, stealing animations from them. Again, some might argue they should be slightly taller or shorter or what-have-you, but in this case a practical solution is welcome since the alternative is FUCKING NOTHING.

-Any nerve issues (I always confuse their names) that impair a person's control over their arms or legs could probably be catered to with simple walk animations or other simple tweaks. Make them prone to clumsier animations, give them a walk cycle that suits them and at most have a couple new animations where they struggle with arm movements of one or both arms. Again, not perfect, but better than absolutely nothing since I think the goal here is inclusion more than perfection.

-I feel like they could do some neat stuff with deaf or blind Sims. Here, the concern is less the animations, but rather the AI. They'd need to fail to react to certain cues that others react to. If we're wanting to argue there'd need to be new animations, I feel like anything added would honestly have uses elsewhere too since it's still using the default body frame. Sign language for example could easily be spliced and double as new hand gestures during conversations, so it's possible to develop this in a way that simultaneously benefits the rest of the game or doesn't feel forced or like it's taking away from other features. For the blind, I feel they could probably create a select handful of simple animations with a walking stick that repeat themselves and wouldn't need to do anything outrageous. Really? Here I think it's laziness and apathy that would be the problems, because as I said this requires someone actually sit down and put some thought into how to tweak their AI to suit the disability, and I just can't see this staff bothering.



I fully understand the issues with animations 100%. I'm disabled myself and I get it; wheelchairs would be a huge undertaking, as would any other more realistic interactions like removing a prosthetic or using crutches. My beef with EA/Maxis on this issue, speaking personally, isn't so much that this has never been done, but that their attitude about it, up until recently, has been absolutely disgusting and warped at times. They've had discussions on their forums where commentary about the suggestion has been similar to one of the first posts in this thread (that disabled people are too depressing to look at or the like or not age appropriate; which btw sidenote, no, teach your little snot-nosed farts better so that I can get on a damned bus without being gawked at by them. Give them MORE exposure, not less) and it's been the advocates for disabled sims that got slapped with warnings and told to stop their posts or face a ban. In the past they've openly stated that making this suggestion is viewed as "lobbying for a political cause" and not tolerated, which feels pretty warped given that wtf EA might as well hand out god damned trophies and throws parties for anyone posting in favor of more trans or gay content. Those brave trans and gay advocates!!! Not the disabled ones though! They need to get back in the basement and stay there where no one can see them!

Now here we are and suddenly Grant is teasing this could happen, and damned right I doubt his sincerity 100%. It's welcome to see something other than "hi we're needlessly hostile towards disabled advocates for some god damned mysterious reason," but now it just feels like yet another bit of hope they're packaging and selling, knowing it'll help sell their product. Are they selling promises or are they selling hope with no actual substance behind the tweet? The latter just seems exploitative instead of needlessly antagonistic, and I'm not sure that's much of an improvement. In that regard, it pisses me off to see this teased if it's not a serious thought or one that's already in the works. If you're gonna do it, say so definitively. If you're not going to due to animation issues, just say so and it's understandable. But for the love of God....what the FUCK has been up with their policies regarding the disabled up until now? It's been sickening, tbh, and the only reason I don't speak up on it more is because I know they'd just ban me ASAP and that'd be the end of it. (since sadly as it's been shown, many people in the Sims community sadly harbor the opinion "disabled ppl are too depressing to look at" or the like) If they're gonna improve beyond those former policies, great....at the same time, I think it's pretty rational if people like myself scream "DOUBT" at the top of our lungs when there's a tweet suggesting this could happen. We weren't exactly treated with respect before, so why should I just trust they're pulling a 180 and planning implementation of this stuff ASAP instead of the more likely theory that this is more packaged hope for sale?

I just hope that if nothing comes of that tweet, people remember this. I find their treatment of the entire topic to be absolutely loathesome, and it bothers me it hasn't gotten as much attention or criticism as it deserves. (probably because yeah, they always shut down discussions about this very topic ASAP)
Lab Assistant
#72 Old 12th Jun 2018 at 5:54 PM
I think the animation for someone in a wheelchair wouldn't be that hard to implement because it's all sitting down. We also need cool electric wheelchairs because why not
Some mental disabilities literally change the entire way your brain works so I have to agree that would be harder

ooh ee ooh a-ah ting-tang walla walla bing bang
Instructor
#73 Old 12th Jun 2018 at 8:30 PM Last edited by Gremily_ : 12th Jun 2018 at 8:42 PM.
With wheelchairs, at least, how would those sims access certain areas/buildings? Very few would meet ADA compliance just like IRL Besides, we don't even have elevators (yet?).
I wish the games were more inclusive, but I feel like adding disabilities would spark some challenges in development. Not that these challenges aren't solvable, but it's more of a matter of how EA would tackle them if they ever mustered up the energy to do so. Not to mention, there's a fine line between offending/mocking someone with a disability and making it inclusive and representative.

Not to get all super-mega-special-ed-advocate-y, and I mean this kindly, but even some of the terminology used in this thread isn't inclusive or correct language.
(And I get it, not everyone is familiar with every disability or with working with people who have a disability, but incorrect language always poses a threat to offending or insulting those who have disabilities or family members with disabilities. It's tricky.)
Mad Poster
#74 Old 12th Jun 2018 at 8:40 PM
"With wheelchairs, at least, how would those sims access certain areas/buildings? Very few would meet ADA compliance just like IRL Besides, we don't even have elevators (yet?). "

By adding ramps (or are they called rams) as a new stair option. From my perspective, it's quite easy and shouldn't be a problem If developers are up for it (without lousy excuses), that allows both handicapped and walking sims (because it makes sense irl) to use them, though the latter would often tend to stick prioritizing stairs. And yeah elevators would be a must have or those ones that are installed in the stairs, which again the formal shouldn't even be a problem because all it would take is to unlock that object from build mode.

If there were wheelchairs for crippled (sorry If I'm using an insulting term) sims, developers will HAVE to add the following changes or make that every area that is accessible for the currently standard healthy sim gets accessible for handicapped as well or some sort of equity gets enforced.

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Instructor
#75 Old 12th Jun 2018 at 8:45 PM
Yeah, you could have ramps, but not every building's floorplan is designed to include a ramp. Even with a ramp, you'd need to take into account if a wheelchair user can maneuver around the floorplan. Every single community lot would need to be edited to be wheelchair-friendly, and I don't have faith that EA would put in that work.

And please don't apologize! I just wanted to make a point that the language used when talking about disabilities is thin ice. Some people care, others don't. Some just don't know. EA would either need to do their research and educate the community or else feelings would be hurt and the fanbase would potentially grow smaller.
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